Vision, Delegation, Scale, and Growth with Bryan and Shannon Miles - Part 1
You're at the top. You're expected to not have all the answers, but at least be able to have enough figured out that you're exuding confidence with this team that you're leading, but you don't always feel confident. Cast vision and you're like, I think this is the right thing. I mean, I know what's not working, you know, and it's like but you can't show up that way and expect your team to rally behind you. I mean, there's a certain level of vulnerability, I think, that you can express with your leadership team.
Shannon Miles:And but at the same time, you're the only one that carries all of the pressure of that role of ownership. You're the only one that if this doesn't go down, you might lose your home. Everybody else can go get another job. And yes, you have your family and they love you and they're probably cheering you on, but they don't understand the pressures and even, you know, the opportunities that come with business ownership. It's just different.
Alex Judd:Hey there. If you have not yet met, my name is Alex Judd. I'm the founder of Path for Growth, and this is the Path for Growth podcast. Now as a business, we exist to help impact driven leaders like you step into who they were created to be so that others benefit and God is glorified. Hey, before we jump into today's episode, I want you to know about a wildly valuable resource that our team created for you and the people you lead.
Alex Judd:One of the most common pieces of feedback we get on the podcast is that you want to be able to take notes so that you can reference the episode later or share it with people you are responsible for developing. But there's one big problem. You're often listening to the podcast on a run while driving, or I've even to talk to people that are listening to us in the shower. So that's why we started creating the growth guide. This resource will distill all of the key principles, quotes, and action items from every single episode into a downloadable PDF that you can share with your team.
Alex Judd:Additionally, we're gonna include application questions and additional resources for anyone that wants to go further on the topic of the week. We are all about helping you and your business grow in a healthy way, and we know that healthy growth always involves intentional action. This guide exists to help you take intentional action on what you and your team learn each week from the podcast. Get the growth guide by clicking the link that's in the show notes. Let's go.
Alex Judd:Well, this one's going to be powerful. I'm so excited to share with you a conversation that I had with Brian and Shannon Miles. We're gonna split this conversation into two parts, so make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. But, man, if you were to ask me, who are the leaders that have had the greatest impact on the way that you think about business and about leadership? For sure, without a shadow of a doubt, Brian and Shannon would be on that list.
Alex Judd:I'm so excited for you to hear these two episodes because Brian and Shannon really have a common sense, value based perspective that has been tested. It's not just theoretical through experience. And in those tests, it has been proven to be wildly successful. And of course, I'm talking about success in terms of growth and profit, but also successful through the lens of impact and legacy. So give you a little bit of their background.
Alex Judd:They were the co founders of BELAY in 2010. That was a virtual staffing company. I'm sure you've heard us talk about that company before on this podcast. My first assistant was through BELAY. If you think back to 2010, that was a pretty cutting edge idea at that time.
Alex Judd:And when they launched it, it it just went bonkers. It grew to over 2,000 people in under ten years, and and has spent over ten years on the Inc. Five thousand list of the fastest growing private companies in the country. In June of twenty twenty one, Brian and Shannon successfully exited majority ownership of And here's what's so cool is they're still minority stakeholders and Belay just continues to thrive. It continues to make an impact.
Alex Judd:In 2019, they established NoFo Brewing, which is an unbelievable craft beer company. Y'all know this. There are a lot of breweries that have good beer but do terrible business. This organization now has three locations. They have good beer, and they do unbelievable business.
Alex Judd:It's such a cool case study in branding and scale and duplicating experience across multiple locations. They are now also part owners of a soccer club out of The UK, and they're deeply invested in the growth of companies around the country and real estate around the country through their holding company, Miles AG. It feels a little bit cheesy to say, but wait. There's more. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to share this podcast with you today.
Alex Judd:They are smack dab in the middle of launching a nonprofit that is entirely dedicated to impacting business owners. This is so, so, so cool. It's called owner, o apostrophe n r. We're gonna talk more about that at the end of this episode because there's particularly an opportunity right now that you can get on the wait list to hear everything about what they're about to release. There's just a bunch of powerful free value that they're gonna be giving away to business owners.
Alex Judd:So we're gonna talk about that at the end of this episode. And also, I've got a really awesome announcement to share with you at the end of this episode. And then we'll also be doubling down on all this stuff in the second episode in this series. So make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. But with that, let's get into it.
Alex Judd:On this episode, we're gonna jump into just an introduction of how they think about business and particularly business ownership. And then I really wanted to highlight on the things that I have noticed they do exceptionally well, which is vision and delegation. We'll cover those in this one. And then in part two of this series, we're gonna get into scale and personal growth in the life of a business owner. Okay.
Alex Judd:There you have it. Here's part one of our two part series with Brian and Shannon Piles. Brian and Shannon, I'm so stoked about
Bryan Miles:this.
Alex Judd:This is gonna be a really powerful conversation, I think. And particularly because as long as I've known y'all, you've been passionate about a very specific and particular group of people and that's business owners. And that's everything that we're gonna be talking about today. And it's really everything that y'all are focused on for this next season, and chapter of your life that I'm excited for us to share more with people about. But the first thing that I'd like to start with is I was thinking about like this topic of business ownership and thinking really about the picture that we often see online is this picture of like this dream state.
Alex Judd:It's almost like the entrepreneur is the new rock star in so many ways. And, like, I think that that dream is actually possible and it actually is reality for a lot of business owners, but it's not the total picture of what a lot of business owners experience because for a lot of people, it it feels a lot more like a nightmare whenever they're in it. Yeah. And so that's where I'd like to start is like, what is the picture of business ownership as nightmare, both in what y'all have experienced in y'all's journey doing this for, I mean, decades now, but also observing and mentoring people. But then also I'd love for you to cast a a vision for us of what does it look like to be a business owner in that dream state?
Alex Judd:Like, what's possible for people? So we start with the bad news and start with the nightmare. And I'd love just for you both to share your perspective on this.
Shannon Miles:Well, first of all, it's been an honor to see you start your journey as a business owner to go from an individual contributor with an amazing organization and role to branching out on your own. And, and I know it hasn't been easy for you, but the decision to become a business owner that you made a long time ago, you were so convinced of it that you had the energy and the passion and the commitment that during those nightmarish times, you've been able to push through. So it's just kind of full circle now that we're sitting on this podcast with you, having watched your journey, into business ownership. So thank you, first of all, for having us on.
Alex Judd:We should make a rule that you're not allowed to make me blush as we get started, Shane. That is I and, you know, and
Bryan Miles:I mean, I assume this
Alex Judd:in the yeah. That's right. We shared this at the beginning of the episode, but it's like y'all I mean, y'all were so critical in that juncture of making the decision and in every step along the way for the past almost five years now. And so that's why I'm so excited to share y'all's perspective with our audience today too. So thanks for saying that, Shannon.
Shannon Miles:You're welcome. So to answer the actual question, the times where business ownership has felt the most nightmarish for me and for a lot of the other business owners that we talk to is in seasons of isolation and loneliness because your journey in some ways is completely unique to you, but not in every way and not in as many ways as we kind of tell ourselves sometimes. So I think in those seasons where I feel the crushing weight of responsibility of business ownership and everything that comes with that And if you're doing it right and I know that people listening to your podcast are trying to do that, you care about the people that are working for you. And when you have to make tough decisions about personnel or hiring and firing, like, those are really difficult seasons in business ownership. And when you do it alone, it just compounds that difficulty.
Bryan Miles:I would say, well, I echo what Shannon said earlier too. Like, we're just insanely proud of you. But I but I also know that you have a similar heart to us and that you really love pouring into business owners. And it's really cool to see that evidence on what you do through your organization and the impact you're having. It's really awesome.
Bryan Miles:So virtual fist bump
Alex Judd:to you. Thank you. Thank you. Fist bumping you back.
Bryan Miles:Yes. So I think that the nightmarish thing that I witnessed is probably just it's it's a combination of things that kind of start to domino. It's it generally starts with a person that started something and maybe they're in a cash flow crunch or they're up against a payroll deadline and they don't have the money. And then then something else happens that breaks in their personal life at the same time. Maybe they have a fight with their spouse.
Bryan Miles:And all of a sudden, the the the two worlds of you as a professional and then as a business owner collide with your personal life, and the nightmare ensues, and you have zero place to go. So Shannon, you know, touched on it, but loneliness and isolation, that is, like, the deepest, darkest part of the soul. And when we when we get in in a room and we talk to business owners, ultimately, we get there. We they find a place where they're like, I can't share this with anybody. And that is that in and of itself is a giant nightmare.
Bryan Miles:That's something that we hope to hopefully address, you know, through what we're doing.
Alex Judd:Yeah. It's interesting. I think this can be true for everyone. I found it particularly true for men, and and that's probably because it's the experience that I can relate most to. But it's like almost sometimes we hear, the words loneliness and isolation used a lot around this topic of business ownership.
Alex Judd:And it almost feels it can feel unrelatable sometimes because it's like, I'm I'm surrounded by people. I've got a great team. Right? Like, and and I've got a great family. Like, I'm not quote unquote lonely or it can become almost like overly therapeutic in the way people come at it.
Alex Judd:And it's like, becomes, at least to me, it can feel like a little bit like, okay, what are we actually doing? Like, are we just sitting around and talking about how lonely we are? But I guess, is there anything else y'all would add on just like, what is it that actually makes people isolated? Like, what is the lie that they tell themselves or the thing that, you know, we can start to believe from a business ownership perspective that starts to cause us to cut off from relationships and from people?
Shannon Miles:I think it's really difficult when you set out with a vision and you're leading an organization in a certain direction. And for whatever reason, that has to change. Like, maybe what you thought you were going to market with isn't working or an approach that you took and led everybody toward needs to change because it wasn't working. That, to me, can be the most embarrassing, I think, part of business ownership. It's like you're at the top.
Shannon Miles:You're expected to not have all the answers, but at least be able to have enough figured out that you're exuding confidence with this team that you're leading, but you don't always feel confident. You know, when you might go into these meetings where you're having a cast vision and you're like, I think this is the right thing. I mean, I know what's not working, you know? And it's like, but you can't show up that way and expect your team to rally behind you. I mean, there's a certain level of vulnerability, I think, that you can express with your leadership team.
Shannon Miles:And, you know, if you are a business owner that has that, you know, trusted group within your organization, I think it is important to let them in to a certain level of vulnerability. But at the same time, you're the only one that carries all of the pressure of that role of ownership. You're the only one that if this doesn't go down, you might lose your home. Everybody else can go get another job. And yes, you have your family and they love you and they're probably cheering you on, but they don't understand the pressures.
Shannon Miles:And even, you know, the opportunities that come with business ownership is just different. And they can be supportive, but to really be known and understood at a level that somebody who's taken all of the risk to become an owner and put themselves out there. And maybe you are one of those gurus, you know, who's talking about, like, the amazing, you know, benefits that business ownership can bring. That is all still very true, but it's hard to relate that to people who love you and support you but are have not taken that same risk that you have. Does that make sense?
Alex Judd:It it does make sense. And maybe one other thing I've recently experienced as it relates to family is it's like you can have that confidant in a spouse. And I think that's a really, really good thing. It was such a blessing whenever I married Aspen and she was that person, but it's like, I mean, y'all know this, six months ago, we had this other little person enter our house and it turns out that like, I don't get to talk to Aspen about all my business ideas anymore because she's, like, a little bit busy. And it's like you you realize, number one, you need people and you can't just be one person.
Alex Judd:You have to diversify where you're getting guidance and wise counsel and perspective and even just emotional support. Brian, anything else you'd add on that topic before we look at the dream?
Bryan Miles:Yeah. I I will never forget. My dad told me to take a while to have kids because he said, your your wife becomes the mother of your children. And, you know, the dynamic in your house just changes, and it does. It it should.
Bryan Miles:You know? But it it is. You you you have to, you know, kind of restructure, you know, when it happens. But I I'd say one of the things I found that can isolate business owners is the I mean, Shannon kinda touched on, like, the hardships and how, like, how hard it is to relate. But something that we've experienced in our own lives is we've had a measure success.
Bryan Miles:And success success also will isolate or the perception of success. Right? So I know plenty of business owners that, you know, they're knocking out of the park on LinkedIn, and they're knocking out of the park on Instagram, but their business results aren't the greatest. But people have this perception of success, and that can isolate as well. So there's this, I guess, it's incumbent on us as business owners to be in a place where we can be really real with other business owners and learn from them, but also, like, identify and relate with them so that they can feel seen and that we can feel feel seen.
Alex Judd:So good. Okay. Let's shift from the nightmare now to a little bit of the dream. And and one of the things I really appreciate about y'all is I think y'all in some ways have provided for me a broadened vision of success. Like whenever I first entered into owning my own business, I thought success was having a wildly profitable business, right?
Alex Judd:This is beyond myself. And it's like, that is a portion of success, but I'll never forget when I was having a conversation with y'all at at some point and you just shared with me that like, man, our vision for what we want for the future is we're on a beach with our grown kids and they are like there because they choose to be there with us. And like, like, that's such such an uncommon thing, but also the thing that we often don't label as our vision of success. And so can you speak to, like, what's the dream part of business ownership? What's what's possible for people that they may not even have vision for yet, but that you want to let them in on?
Bryan Miles:Yeah. I'd say that owner's intent is what drives the behavior behind that. And because everybody as an owner might have a different form of intent, meaning their outcome may look different, you know, than what our outcome was or someone else's outcome. And their goals that they're aiming at may look different. I have a good friend that he had a very successful business.
Bryan Miles:And after, you know, twenty plus years, after making plenty of money, their best option was to just go ahead and and close down the business and sell off the assets. And that was a meaningful outcome for them. That's exactly what they were aiming at, and that was success. You know? Whereas, you know, in our situation, we grew a company, and then we're able to sell it for a a fairly large multiple.
Bryan Miles:So there's and then there's other ways of defining success. Some people wanna dream to take their company public. Right? So owner's intent, I think, drives the behavior behind what they perceive as success. And oftentimes, business owners don't even know what they're aiming at.
Shannon Miles:And to that point, we have, you know, another example of a business owner who kinda went into it with the same mentality you did. Like, it's it's growing and scaling and, you know, growing your top line and protecting your net and all that. And and he realized that through all of what he thought he was supposed to do, what he thought business ownership was supposed to look like was not satisfying to him. Mhmm. His, you know, he was effectively running a for profit business with not a lot of profit because the cost to scale was eating away at his margins.
Shannon Miles:And he realized that in pairing back and letting people go and doing getting back more into the business, like, he's happier. He's taking on the clients that he wants to take on. He's enjoying his work. He's he's he's growing at a pace that is right for him. So I think that's the scary part about speaking out in the business ownership space.
Shannon Miles:It's like what's worked for us and our path for us is for us, and it might be for some people, but it's definitely not all. And that doesn't mean that they're not being successful in their approach to business ownership. I mean, now he has time to spend with his kids that he didn't have before. And now he can go on vacation and not have to worry about all of these projects falling apart because he's he's can't trust his team to oversee them. So that's success for him, which is different than what it looks like for us.
Bryan Miles:Just to add to that business success and the outcomes you're aiming for in your business, you touched on earlier, it also has to be married up and coupled with what your, you know, your personal I ideal, you know, aim is or your goals that you're looking at. You know, you mentioned our come our couple's vision for she and I earlier, and that is what we're aiming at as a couple long term. And that's, you know, you call, I guess, couple's intent, you know, because it's what we're aiming at long term in the same way we have business intent with the things that we start. So those two things must marry up. They cannot live firewall.
Bryan Miles:They can't have a separation between them. They're very, very integrated.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. When y'all started the first business that you ended up selling a large portion of, I think in, like, ten years. Right? Like, it took you a decade that you could Eleven. Yep.
Alex Judd:Right? Yep. Mhmm. Yeah. I was at your house for the ten year anniversary.
Alex Judd:I remember that. That was, that was such a treat. I think we went to a cheap Mexican restaurant together and set up right there. It was so good.
Bryan Miles:As we should.
Alex Judd:Elhard. That's right. That's the best possible way to celebrate. So, like, did you I mean, that was y'all's first go at it. Did y'all know day one, like, man, our goal is eleven years from now, Like, our goal is to sell this.
Alex Judd:Or what was your intent when you started? And then when did your intent start to crystallize? And how did the process of building Business One affect now all of the other initiatives that you're now involved in?
Shannon Miles:You know, when we started BELAY in 2010, I'll be honest, I did not have the vision for what it ended up becoming. I knew that we wanted to give it a go. I knew that we wanted to become business owners. I knew that we had a really good idea that the market seemed to be interested in and and rewarding. But I was thinking very small at that point.
Shannon Miles:I was thinking, I just want freedom, and I just want the hours that I'm working towards something to be building an asset for my family and not for the employer that I had worked for for the last ten years, which I loved and I was grateful for, but it was time to start building something for ourselves. And as time went on and we got some opportunities and some early success in the business and some counsel about the idea of owning your business and not running it, I think that's when our our larger intent of like, okay. It's not just freedom. It's not just getting away from this lifestyle that you know isn't working for you anymore. It's now you have this thing, this entity with people that you have responsibility for, and it's your job to sort it.
Shannon Miles:So what is your intent now? And I think when we solidified that we wanted to build the company so that we could sell it if and when we wanted to, that informed a ton of decisions that we made. And that kind of happened early on, like, in 2011, I think.
Bryan Miles:That's right. Yeah. It was nine months in. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Okay. I think we coincide with a lot of people that are in the stage where they know they want to be a business owner for many of the reasons you mentioned, Shannon, but they haven't yet gotten a crystallized intent of here's how I would like to build this thing and and here's even exit strategy or things like that. They just know, I wanna I wanna provide a good service. I wanna have freedom.
Alex Judd:I I wanna be able to to work with team members that I hire and get to engage with all of that. What are the things that y'all look back and maybe intentionally, maybe unintentionally, you look back and you say, in those first nine months, these are the things that we did right. So that when that intent did crystallize, we were able to actually act on it and pursue it.
Bryan Miles:Yeah. That's a great question. Much like Shannon, you know, the the reason why I really wanted to start this with her was for freedom's sake. Like, I just wanted freedom. And I didn't I didn't have a single idea what the dollar value would be connected to the business.
Bryan Miles:I didn't I just felt like we had a good idea that and we were timing it right, it felt like, at the time. But I crave freedom for us and for our family to to do things and to you know? So and and, frankly, I limited what I thought God could do in the business as well, to be honest with you. Like, just from a pure relationship with God standpoint, I would pray prayers, and those all came through pretty quick. You know?
Bryan Miles:And I've so I was like, well, I'm gonna stop limiting what I think God wants to do with us in this business now.
Alex Judd:Pray bigger.
Bryan Miles:I'm gonna take the lid off a little bit. And I was constantly surprised because the market did take hold fairly quick. But I I would just say that, you know, in the early days of our business, craving that freedom, the market was telling us certain things. The market was saying, do this, don't do that. And so we tried different types of virtual services that we would offer, and some would take and, like, it made sense.
Bryan Miles:And some are it's like it was like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Bryan Miles:So we we constantly paid close attention to what the market was telling us in terms of, like, the prospects that said no to us, the clients that came on board with us. We were listening really, really close because what what really, you know, ended up being the thing that started to really crystallize our business came, like Shannon said, about nine months in. But it was through working through plan a and that didn't work, and working through plan b and that didn't work, and working through plan c. And then finally plan d is like, I think this is it. This is what the market's saying that they're gonna reward us with.
Bryan Miles:So it's it's intentionality around paying close attention to what the market is telling you. And then there's this time in your business, and this was several years later. It was, like, after we started, like, kinda catch radars, like, on like, being one thirty one on the Inc five hundred list and, you know, starting to get some notoriety for our business and winning a really big award with Entrepreneur Magazine. And things started to shift from what I would call from from, like, really strong headwinds to, like, a really nice tailwind.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Bryan Miles:And our business started to kinda fly a bit more efficiently. And it was that to me is like, oh, there's something happening here that's beyond just making sales and building market share. There's something here happening in this business that's really we're going deeper in the market, and we're we're becoming a bigger name. That's for me is when I felt it crystalized.
Alex Judd:Shannon, anything you'd add to that?
Shannon Miles:Yeah. I mean, those first nine months, I think, like, a lot of business owners, we had to decide, when do we hire? What do we delegate? Can the business afford to bring on resources that it feels like it's too soon, but also you have to hire ahead of the curve if you're going to be able to support the growth that you're anticipating? Those were some of the early decisions in that first nine months that I think we realized we had to start building a team.
Shannon Miles:We had to figure out delegation and what it looked like to replace ourselves in different aspects of the business because there was no way we were gonna be able to scale or take a vacation or ultimately have a business that was valuable for for sale if we didn't build it around people that we could trust. And I think that is a difficult thing for a lot of business owners, especially if you're, somebody who likes to control things
Bryan Miles:Mhmm.
Shannon Miles:Which is a great feature but can also be a massive, limit to your ability to grow.
Alex Judd:Yeah. And y'all are kinda setting us up for the five core areas that I really wanna walk into, but because you kind of already hit on it, at the start of either BELAY or any of the other things that you've initiated, it sounds like part of your posture towards the marketplace is, hey, we're gonna go with something that our intuition says is valuable, but then we're gonna listen really closely to the marketplace and we will shift, pivot, adjust as needed pretty rapidly, it sounds like. I mean, the fact that y'all pursued so many different plans in nine months to eventually land where you did is pretty remarkable. How do you get good people on board for a vision that you're like, this could look different tomorrow than what what we're pursuing today? Like, how do you get good people bought into something that might change and shift and mold as much as it needs to to be really successful?
Bryan Miles:I think that your vision has to be big enough that they're attracted to it. You know? And, frankly, the people that are attracted to what a small business looks like, oftentimes, are the ones that are attracted to what the organization must turn into to grow in value. And so there's the these re up moments along the way. We call them chasms when we educate business owners, but we call them chasms that they have to jump at certain stages in their business.
Bryan Miles:And those are natural re up moments. But in the early days, it's casting vision, and and we've said it a lot. But, like, in the early days, you have to say it until you see it. And then you have to say it so big and create such a north star that it people like, I get it. I see what we're doing.
Bryan Miles:I wanna be part of this. And it's gotta make sense to them, and they gotta see evidence and happy customers, and they've gotta see and they have to see evidence that this thing is actually working and life change is occurring or whatever the product may be that you're selling. It's gotta, like, really make something better. So I I think a lot of it in the early days is just attracting people tied to how big your vision is for it.
Shannon Miles:I think we listened a lot too. You know, we never came into it pretending to have all the answers. Like, we knew a lot of what we were doing was experimentation. And so we just created an environment where people could challenge assumptions and ask a lot of questions. And we did a ton of, like, lessons learned and debriefs and calibration between our sales team and our customer service team so that we we could all work together to figure out the best solution.
Shannon Miles:And we would often use the analogy, like, if we're if we're approaching an issue in our business, it can't be around a person. Right. It's gotta be around the issue. So we would take this figurative issue, put it on one side of the table and all of us would line up on the other side of the table and say, how do we attack this issue versus, oh, this department's just not functioning properly or it's this leader's problem. Like we would always default to, Let's all work on the issue and the resolution together.
Shannon Miles:And then at the end of the day, if it's a personnel problem, that's a whole different path. But that was sort of the approach that I think kept a lot of people in those early days too where, you know, roles and responsibilities were kind of shifting a lot and that can be exhausting for some people. And so monitoring that and, you know, engaging them in the process really helped a lot. And then to Brian's point, you know, sometimes people just have to get off the roller coaster. It's exhausting.
Shannon Miles:And you're not, you know, not everybody has the energy for it forever as you scale. And that has to be okay too.
Bryan Miles:You know, I want to touch on something that is kind of adjacent to this, but it's it's part of the answer to your question. You know, how we started Belay was one way, but how we because our owner's intent is to sell businesses one day, is to create something to sell. Now when we start a business, we start with this idea of, like, okay, let's go talk to the people that sell this type of business. Let's go talk to the investment banker or the broker that is spiking the football when they sell for someone and asking them the question, when you spike the football and you sell this business, what what are those things? And then that becomes your recipe.
Bryan Miles:That becomes your playbook for how you sell your business. So now we we because that's our owner's intent. Like, we're not creating this to hand off to our kids. We want them to go do their own thing. You know, for us, we we're we're gonna create a meaningful asset and then go sell it.
Bryan Miles:And so who do you who's the best people to talk to? It's the one that sell it for a great premium. Right? So they really give you the marching orders for how you can create a successful business in that space. And that's how we that's how we approach it today, which is we had no clue when we we got started in 02/2010.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Man, that's so good because I what that clarifies for me is, like, your the clarity of your intent really drives who and what you're asking for in terms of advice.
Bryan Miles:That's right.
Alex Judd:I I think there's a lot of content right now on, like, have wise counsel, seek good advice, and it's like but there's not as much on who are you talking to for advice. And I think a lot of people end up with a smattering of things that are somewhat or not at all related to their actual intent of what they want to build. Yeah. So it sounds like y'all get clear on, like, what are we trying to accomplish here? And then that's your filter for everything you do.
Alex Judd:Yes.
Shannon Miles:It has to be. Because otherwise that's where we've seen business owners get in trouble. It's like if you don't identify what your intent is with your business, it makes decision making really, really difficult.
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Shannon Miles:But if you know, okay. My intent is to have a lifestyle business, and I don't want it to get too big, then you know which hires you need to to make or what you need to outsource or you know? Like, otherwise, it just becomes very confusing, and and you can look at other people and their path and think, I I should apply that because that's what success looks like. But mentors, you're right. They have to look different based on what the intention is for your business.
Shannon Miles:And we're trying to build owner in such a way that all paths are welcome. You know? Because our our heart behind this isn't an outcome for a sales number. Like and that's, you know, been one of my fears of, like, going public, so to speak, with our story is I never want it to be, like, the template. I never want it to be that, oh, follow these five steps, and you too will become written.
Shannon Miles:That's not it. It's business ownership is hard, and it can be lonely. And if you want to have a whole and full life, there are personal and professional principles that you can learn that will get you there. And it's in your path is going to be your own. And so we're trying to create a wide enough space for people to enter into owner and and be safe to kind of go on that journey.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. Man, I love that you alluded to owner, and this seems like a a proper spot to just kind of share with everyone what y'all are building. So instead of me sharing about it, I feel like y'all should share about this vision that you're pursuing. And then from there, I'd love for us to get into the topic of vision and also some of the other big topics associated with business ownership. But give us the snapshot of, like, what is owner and why at this stage in y'all's lives is this the thing that you're you're pursuing next in service of others?
Bryan Miles:You know, Shannon and I have had the opportunity over fifteen years to, you know, build some meaningful businesses, and some of the for profits that we're part of acted more like a nonprofit. So we thought, let's create an actual nonprofit this time. You know, so I'm I'm joking about that. What I'm really excited about with owner is we're going to create a meaningful community for business owners that can be real, that can feel safe, and they can get a lot of great educational content. And I think that there's plenty of organizations out there that provide great content.
Bryan Miles:What we wanna do is share our our story and a lot of other stories so that business owners can feel like they can relate.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Bryan Miles:Versus here's the thing, here's the six steps, here's the whatever. That's all important stuff and very, very, very important in how to scale your business and everything else. We just want to create a community where they can feel like they can relate. And they can start to work on themselves as a whole person connected to their business and connected to their life. So that's really what owner in its essence looks like.
Bryan Miles:And then, you know, we're we're still in our infancy. You know, we're we're working on a lot of great meaningful content right now that I think will be very helpful, but we're very much in our infancy right now.
Shannon Miles:Yeah. You know, we tried something back in late twenty nineteen, early '20 '20 that was kind of some of the same principles for owner, but it was a for profit business. And then when the pandemic happened, it became clear that it wasn't the right time and it wasn't the right message. But it was our way of trying to take some of the principles that we had learned and mentored people in over the years and make it more scalable. So when we decided not to pursue that and Brian had the idea of taking some of that, the heart behind what we were trying to accomplish with that and turning it into a nonprofit, it just all clicked and it made sense.
Shannon Miles:And, you know, we're I'm in my late forties. Brian's about to turn 50. We're in that sort of second half of life, you know, season. And, gosh, I don't really wanna start any more businesses. Like, I don't I don't think I can chase that anymore.
Shannon Miles:It's it's exhausting, and I love it. And I I wanna support business owners, but, gosh, I don't have the energy for it anymore. But I do have the energy and passion for building a legacy around something that I feel like God has uniquely gifted us to speak into. I know that our situation is rare. I know that our story is rare and even more so because we're husband and wife, and we did this thing together.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Shannon Miles:But my hope is that with the story that God has written in our lives and what we're building with owner, that this can be a legacy that lives beyond us and and creates a movement, I think, of business ownership and what that can look like in our current day and age.
Bryan Miles:I'm super excited to share not only our story just because we get asked about it a lot, and we thought this would be a really beautiful way to tell that story. I'm more excited to share the stories of other business owners.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Shannon Miles:You
Bryan Miles:know? Because there's so many great stories out there that they're they're they're not gonna get the pots and pans and the whiz bang and all the great clapping for them, and they need to. Because they're doing hard work, and they're they're a very holistic leader and a holistic business owner, and their stories need to be told. And they have struggle and triumph just as much as we might have, but in different ways. And I feel like those stories need to be told more.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. The two themes of what y'all just said that just had me so excited is, like, stories and relationships. And, like, in in a personal growth, leadership growth, business growth world right now that I think is, like, honestly inundated with tactics and tips and hacks. Like, I the things that have transformed my life and my leadership are stories and relationships. And so it just so, so, so cool that that's y'all's focus.
Alex Judd:And it's like, you know, I think y'all are setting y'all's selves apart, and it's why I'm excited to to, I mean, be a part of this in some ways and be connected to y'all in this. You're setting yourselves apart in some ways and that you're kind of saying, if you're looking for the hacks, we're not your people. Like, we're not gonna be your hack people. Like, we're investing in stories and relationships. So so cool.
Alex Judd:Okay. So with that, let's get into some of the, like, big areas that I think business owners often have ambiguity around, and that ambiguity often results in the isolation you were talking about at the beginning. We we've already hit on this some, but let's start with the topic of vision. If someone were to ask me like, hey, based on what you know about Brian and Shannon, why are they as successful at what they do as they are? One of the things that would stand out to me is like, when y'all go in, you go like all in.
Alex Judd:Like, it's like, you're not like, you're all chips to the center of the table. It's like, no holds barred. And it's like, if we're gonna do a brewery, we're gonna do a freaking brewery, right? Like we're not happy with this thing. And so that is just such a gutsy thing though, to like know, man, if we're gonna go in, we're gonna go all in.
Alex Judd:So I guess my first question on vision is how do you choose what to pursue? You you've launched multiple businesses now. Is there anything you can share with us on the journey from ideation all the way to commitment and execution that y'all have learned?
Bryan Miles:Such a loaded question, Alex.
Alex Judd:I think that was the best thing. That was a deep breath, Brian.
Shannon Miles:I like that question.
Bryan Miles:I think, as Shannon kind of alluded to, we're we're entering a different stage of life at this point where we have, played the game of business and we found some success, and now we wanna convert to where our legacy more looks like. You know, what what can I do when I'm 85? Well, what I can do is I can sit down and talk about principles in business with business owners and let them to, you know, share their stories and vice versa. And and I I think Brian at 35 looks a lot different than Brian at almost 50. And so my answer to that question is, I think you have to when you're looking at starting a business, you have to look at what the market will reward you with coupled with your passion, coupled with your grit, and coupled with knowing the true resources that are available to you to start it.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Bryan Miles:You know? I I see people, they'll they'll have a false start because they didn't have the financing, or they'll have a far false start because they they realized really quickly that there was already a competitor out there doing that, and they were gonna eat their lunch. You know? It's doing the due diligence in advance that I that I see a lot of people don't take the time to do. And that's one thing that Shannon and I, even when we started BELAY and we didn't know what we were doing with it, we took four or five months of due diligence from about May to October 2010, and we said, is this a thing?
Bryan Miles:Is this viable? Is this worth the risk? And I just see a lot of people, like, you know, they they they they love the the romanticize about the napkin scratch. You know? And, like, oh, this is a great idea.
Bryan Miles:Let's let's do it. You know? I'm putting my job tomorrow. And I and I don't think that's you know, while it might work in Hollywood, I don't see that being very successful in real life. So doing due diligence ahead of time, really thinking through, will the market reward this business?
Bryan Miles:Is there something to this business? You know? And and making sure that, you know, you're entering a space where you're at least could be number one or number two when you do the hard work to get there.
Shannon Miles:I think that's super helpful, like, at the business level. And, certainly, the filter that we run-in, you know, investment opportunities through or net new things that we're starting, like the event business that we're starting right now inadvertently, it's gonna be amazing. But we have a vision that is not business related, that is ultimately what we have to run everything through. And you mentioned it earlier, and it's the vision that we have as husband and wife that will be elderly walking down the beach with our kids and their kids. And that means for us a lot of different things.
Shannon Miles:That means he and I are good, that we still love each other, that we enjoy being together. It means we have the financial resources to create opportunities like that for our family. It means that our kids get along and that they still wanna be with us and that we have the ability to travel. Like, those are things that we value very much. And so when we have opportunities that are presented to us, whether it's ideas that we have or external opportunities that we need to vet, the first question is, does this help get us to our vision or not?
Shannon Miles:And if it does, then we go to the next step and then we figure out if it's something that we want to invest financial resources in, how much time is it going to take from us? That's our biggest, challenge right now is, you know, just our time and how limited and, you know, that's not unique to us. I know a lot of people that are listening to this have that same constraint, but we even have a shorter term vision, which is our three year focus to freedom. You know, over the years after we sold BELAY, we found ourselves busier than we intended to be. And it's all stuff that we've come up with.
Shannon Miles:It's things that we've purchased. Like this event business is literally in our backyard. And instead of just like sitting on it for a while, we're doing an entire build out and creating a whole organization around it. And like we have inadvertently gobbled up the freedom that we intended to have way back in the beginning, and even that we should be able to have post sale for BELAY. So it was kinda crazy this fall.
Shannon Miles:Brian and I were just feeling super pinched and pressured and, like, we're like, hold on a second. This is our journey. Like, we have the opportunity to this is all self imposed.
Alex Judd:Yeah.
Shannon Miles:So we just hit a time out and and really had a hard conversation, just the two of I two of us. And and we arrived at our three year focus to freedom, which means and that was three years at the time. You know, August of twenty seven, we wanna be able to hit the road and nobody needs anything from us.
Alex Judd:Mhmm.
Shannon Miles:We are very much not in that space right now. A lot of decisions have to run through us. A lot of responsibilities with our family that we need to shore up. So we're working toward that. And that's the vision, Alex, that we've cast into our team.
Shannon Miles:Like, they know what we're aiming for. And so the next two and a half years, we rallied our team behind this vision that we have. And everybody knows their part. We have a a a timeline for how we're gonna slowly and methodically turn things over. And and and so my point in bringing all of that up is can't the vision can't just be for a particular business.
Shannon Miles:It's what do you want the business to do for your life? That's what really matters.
Alex Judd:Yeah. That's that's so good. It's wild too how, at least my experience is, I can have a day to day where I'm working too much in the business or I'm spending my time doing things that I don't enjoy, and that can even continue in some ways. The only thing that changes is I contextualize all that stuff in terms of a timeline and a purpose. Like, it's exactly what y'all said, where it's like, I take all this working in the business work, and I don't just act like I'm Sisyphus pushing this rock up the hill forever until the end of time.
Alex Judd:But it's like, no. I'm doing this for a particular purpose until a particular time. And it's like that changed my experience is that changes everything about the work. I guess in terms of, like, what y'all are pursuing, both in terms of deadlines, but also ideas, most of the things I know in terms of y'all's business involvement, y'all do together. Mhmm.
Alex Judd:How how do y'all start together and stay together? Like, how do y'all maintain alignment in terms of what you do?
Bryan Miles:I think it goes back to our couple's vision. You know? Like, we're in this together. You know? And so, it's it's important that we're in alignment, you know, and that when we're elderly and we're on the beach together, we still not only love each other, we also like each other.
Bryan Miles:Yeah. Right? Two different things. It's a no idea. Yeah.
Bryan Miles:And so a lot of that of how we work together is, you know, working to be in alignment. We're two very different people. We really are. She's an entirely different leader than I am, and she's incredible at what she does in terms of leading. And so I love to default to her in the lanes of our business, but I also know what I'm really good at as well.
Bryan Miles:And she does a really good job to default to me as well. And so we've we've found that we can actually be stronger if we default to each other and our strengths.
Alex Judd:What does defaulting to each other look like practically? Like, what does that mean? Not not y'all did a good job of looking at it. You defaulted to each other.
Shannon Miles:That's what it means.
Alex Judd:Look at the other person. Who's the answer?
Shannon Miles:Because we're tapping each other under the table. You take this one.
Alex Judd:Okay. Actually, I wanna I wanna add a qualifier to the question. How do you properly default to someone without getting into this weird, I think, unhealthy relational dynamic where it's like, I'm asking your permission almost. Right? Like, it can almost be like, I'm asking your permission to be a little bit of who I'm created to be.
Alex Judd:That's not healthy.
Bryan Miles:That's a different question.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So let's address both of them then.
Alex Judd:Let's first start with defaulting.
Shannon Miles:There are certain decisions that need to be made that we don't agree on. You might find that hard to believe, Alex, but
Alex Judd:we don't agree on good things. Uh-huh. It's a time. I feel like I'm seeing some of these happen in real time, actually.
Shannon Miles:There may have been one this week, let's just say. But what we've learned to do is, like, there's always one person who's more passionate about it than the other, just inevitably. And when that becomes obvious, then even this week, I had something that I was incredibly passionate about that I brought up to Brian. He categorically disagreed with it but said, I support you. Like, I don't agree.
Shannon Miles:I don't think this is the right thing, but I trust you, and let's do it. That's what it looks like. Now, it wasn't without a lot of discussion and, you know, then you throw in relational dynamics and things like that. But, you know, that has worked for us. You know, like we it's not a rolling over, it's not a, screw it.
Shannon Miles:I don't care. Like, do whatever you want to do. Like, it's your thing. I don't care. It's not that.
Shannon Miles:It is these are important decisions that we need to make, and even we can make them and move forward to them and commit to them. I mean, leadership teams do it all the time.
Alex Judd:That's right.
Shannon Miles:Right? You disagree and you commit, and you move forward and you implement. Like, that's we do it, and and it just so happens that we're married.
Bryan Miles:Like, like, even in the example that she gave this week, you know, there was never a moment in that conversation where I thought, like, this is just to kinda win an argument. I knew her I knew it was right it was the right thing. She was she was pleading for what she felt was the right thing for the business as much as I was. You know? And and, you know, I did, and her passion did win that argument because she did really care about it.
Bryan Miles:And I I'm while I disagree with it, I support her, and we move forward. And there's plenty of times that she's done the same for me too. So it's that is a that is an example of defaulting. And then just a practical sense, it's knowing the the strengths that you have. You know, I'm more of the vision, sales, marketing person, the rubber meets the sky, and Shannon's more the execution, you know, project management, leadership of team, kind of the rubber meets the road.
Bryan Miles:And so, you know, it makes sense that she should have a bit bigger, louder voice into those things because she's really awesome at it. And, you know, I'm less passionate about those things and vice versa. You know, it takes a visionary to see something before anybody else can see it. And it takes a visionary to articulate what it is that's possible. Mhmm.
Bryan Miles:And that's not easy. And I have that ability. So I think, you know, that we just trust each other and we default to our strengths.
Alex Judd:Can you speak to the role that your faith plays in terms of both deciding on what to pursue and then just the day to day of pursuing it?
Shannon Miles:We haven't talked about this principle yet, but it's been a guiding principle even before I think we could articulate it, but it's the principle of expansion. And the idea is, you know, that as individuals, we expand, right? We're a path for growth, right? We're growing. We're expanding as individuals, as business owners, as leaders, as parents, as spouses.
Shannon Miles:And with that expansion, we gain power. We're gaining power in those areas that we've grown in and expanded in. And that can look like influence. It can look like community involvement. It can look like
Alex Judd:Money.
Shannon Miles:Money. It can look like political power. It can look like a lot of different things, but you've gained power through your expansion. Right? And for me, when we sold BELAY in 2021, and I'm getting to the faith question and this is all gonna come to the ground, I promise you, I was kind of lost in some ways because I I took that opportunity to completely exit the business.
Shannon Miles:Brian stayed on as, as a member of the board. And I so much of who I was was around being the owner of that business. And I took so much pride in what we had created and just the amazing entity that it had become. So here we are, we've expanded and I've gained this power. I was terrified.
Shannon Miles:I didn't know what to do with it. And so I sort of like went into a hole and became a little bit of a hermit. And I really went on a spiritual journey during that time. And I realized that what gaining power looked like for me, the monetary thing was settled. The new power that I needed to find was my identity in Christ and what it looked like to engage the holy spirit in my day to day and be led in that way, because I can, I can charge forward and I can get things done?
Shannon Miles:But I felt this season of, you just have to settle into this power and tap into a new source of power. And my faith grew significantly over that period of time, so that now, fast forward several years later, I'm still definitely on this journey and doing a lot of, you know, internal family systems and a lot of work on myself, and that's where I'm finding a lot of the gaining the power. But now I'm ready to move on to this next stage of the principle of expansion, which is give it away for the sake of others. And that's why I feel like I personally am ready to embark on owner because I feel like I've been able to alchemize all of this, the story, all of these blessings, all of these changes in my life through this season. And now I am prepared to, in a healthy way, give it away for the sake of others and really own my story and what my faith has developed in me over the years.
Shannon Miles:And so then the final step of the principle is to repeat that because with every time we kind of give it away and deplete ourselves in a sense of this power that we've gained, we have the opportunity to expand again, gain the power, give it away for others and repeat. And that's sort of the mantra that we live our lives by, we run our businesses by, but it's very much a spiritual journey for me too.
Alex Judd:Brian has asked me so many times, have I shared with you the principle of expansion? And I feel like I always say no just so we'll share it again. Right? Because I'm like, I need to hear this again. I need to hear this again.
Alex Judd:But and the diagram y'all draw with it, it's probably the single thing that is that you have shared with me that has made the greatest practical impact on my life. Like, in you know, we lived in a two bedroom condo, and Aspen and I were pretty deliberate about, like, that second bedroom is to invite people into and to, like, provide hospitality because we've been blessed with a two bedroom condo. And now it's like, we've got a four bedroom house and we've got a back porch. And it's like that back porch is to have people over for barbecues and those extra bedrooms. One of them is for a kiddo and the others are to have people.
Alex Judd:And it's like and, like, even my running, right? It's like, I look at my running differently because it's like, that's power, that's strength. And now like, why have I been given that to invite other people in, to get them passionate about being physically active? And so it's like, I can point to so many areas of my life where you're blessed to be a blessing. And in some ways, and Brian, I'd love to get your thoughts on this and also on the faith question, but like, I think my self improvement is not a good enough reason for me to keep going in some ways.
Alex Judd:It's like the the thing that makes it so meaningful, engaging, and adventurous is like, oh, the reason why we're doing this is for other people. So, Brian, anything you'd add on that principle or that you wanna speak into the faith question?
Bryan Miles:Well, the faith the the the question around decision making, we've talked about in another episode. You can give that away in your show notes. You know? But I I I this this the answer is the same for me as it relates to the principle of expansion. Because of what I know that Jesus did on the cross, he he gave himself away for the sake of others.
Bryan Miles:That is the model that we should operate from. Right? And so when you when you and and my goodness. Talk about someone that had the ability to expand and had power and then chose to do that. Right?
Bryan Miles:I mean, if if he if he did that, then that's that's our template. That's our model. So in our modern day, when we expand, whether that's in our body or in our relationships or in our business or whatever, that creates the power that you have generated because you've chosen to expand. And then you take that ex that power and you give it away for the sake of others and repeat. And from a faith standpoint, what I've witnessed, and I know Shannon would say the same thing, is that little tiny circle starts to get a little bit bigger because you've exercised that muscle again.
Bryan Miles:And the next time, the circle gets a little bit bigger. And your power and your influence and whatever else gets bigger. And that means you get to give away more to more people, and that circle gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And now we're entering into a season where I'm convinced that God's going to use owner in a really cool way, and we're not quite sure what it's gonna be. But I think it's because our circles continue to get bigger because we're exercising the muscle of expansion.
Bryan Miles:It's creating power, and we're gonna give it away for the sake of others. Literally, it's a nonprofit. I mean, we're we've put quite a bit of money and time and resources into this. We're literally giving it away for the sake of others. So I'm I'm really excited to see the outcome of that because I think that with that is gonna be another bigger opportunity.
Alex Judd:It's amazing. I mean, just in witnessing y'all start the nonprofit, how much work it is to give stuff away. Like it's an insane amount of work and responsibility though, which, yeah, it's really cool to see y'all be so invested. And I told you that I was gonna have some really cool announcements at the end of this episode. So I wanna make sure you hear all these things.
Alex Judd:Number one is part two of this conversation is gonna be focused on scaling a company, something that they are, I mean, obviously, uniquely adept at because they've got experience in it. And then also personal growth in the life of a business owner. So make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. And then also, you can join our email list to make sure you get all the supplemental resources that go along with these episodes. We send out a growth guide with every episode.
Alex Judd:You can click the link within the show notes to get that guide. Number two, we alluded to it in this episode. We'll dive deeper into it in the next one. Brian and Shannon are smack dab in the middle of launching a nonprofit called Owner. It's entirely focused on impacting business owners.
Alex Judd:And one of the things that's really cool is they are now in, like, overflow mode where they are just focused on giving away value. And this nonprofit is going to launch with the release of a feature length documentary that tells the story both of their business ownership journey, but also of business ownership journeys around the country. The production quality on this, the value that's embedded in these stories, it's so, so, so powerful. I'm so excited for you to see this. And this was crazy, is they're just giving it away.
Alex Judd:And so here's what's really cool. We've got access to the wait list for that. It's gonna be releasing in, like, a week, and I wanna make sure you get on the wait list. So, the link to join the wait list is in the show notes of this episode. Make sure you click that, sign up because they're also gonna be releasing seasons of powerful content directed particularly and specifically at business owners.
Alex Judd:It's gonna be so good. So I wanna make sure you're one of the first to get that. And then third, this is such a cool announcement to make, and this, I think, is the first time I'm making it publicly. Brian and Shannon are going to be joining us for our in person experience in Austin, Texas at the October. As you already know, the theme of that experience this year is gonna be a long game leadership.
Alex Judd:We're gonna be looking at what does it look like to not just think about superficial success, which we talked some about in this episode. Like, how do you get beyond that? How do you think bigger and grander than that? That's one of the things that Brian and Shannon have done for me is they've challenged me to think broader about what success can be. And and that's what we're gonna spend some time on in their session in Austin.
Alex Judd:I'm so prompt they're gonna be there. I'm also just stoked about the whole crew of leaders that's gonna be there. We've got it 70% sold out right now, and we're, like, months away from this thing. So if you wanna join us in Austin, all the information for that is in the show notes of this episode. Make sure you click that.
Alex Judd:And, seriously, if you wanna join us, now's the time, to make sure that you reserve your spot. Make sure you're subscribed so that you get episode two of this series. Other than that, you know this. We're rooting for you. We're praying for you.
Alex Judd:We wanna see you win. Remember my strength is not for me. Your strength is not for you. Our strength is for service.
Bryan Miles:Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
